Emerging Conversation: The Limits of Friendly Dialogue

The following is a post from more than a year ago. I returned to the Jesus Creed site again just to have another look around and found that nothing has changed. My conversations with other emerging types has revealed the same. How about you?

I've been visiting the well known and popular Emerging Blog named Jesus Creed, moderated by Scot McKnight, Professor of Religious Studies at North Park University in Chicago, Illinois. Other emerging Leaders are Brian McLaren, Alan Hirsch, Dan Kimball, Mark Driscoll, D. A. Carson, Leonard Sweet, Doug Pagitt, Ed Stetzer, John Burke, Scott A. Bessenecker, and Dennis M. Doyle.

Actually, I've been participating in the conversation for awhile. I've found it interesting, thought provoking, frustrating, enlightening and most of all, revealing. Emerging or The Emerging Church Movement is a major religious movement which has made a major impact in many parts of the world, not the least of which is the United States. The American Evangelical Church, otherwise know as Protestants and other non Roman Catholic churches have been impacted greatly by this movement over the last 10-15 years. In fact the impact has been so great that most have not known exactly how to respond to the Emerging refusal to go along with the traditional religious life of Evangelicals. They have increasingly put pressure on leadership to, not only listen to their complaints and suggestions, but to agree with their complaints and implement their suggestions. Otherwise, they will leave to start their own ministries. And they have. And Evangelicals are suffering because of it.

As I said, Evangelicals don't know how to respond to prevent or counteract their influence. One of the hallmarks of Emerging is Conversation. They will talk about anything, anywhere at anytime. Open and honest dialogue is encouraged among all. No question is considered taboo. Answers are provided in high quantity. If you disagree, that's OK! Simply verbalize your disagreement. You are accepted in spite of any disagreement you or anyone else may have. But conversing about that disagreement is guaranteed which means your participation in the conversation is also guaranteed. This is one area where Emerging frustrates Evangelicals. Emerging provides a forum as well as acceptance for the religiously downtrodden, marginalized and rejected. In other words, those not traditionally accepted by Evangelicals for various reasons, legitimate and not so legitimate.

But I found out today that their friendly dialogue has its limits. Yes, their are certain things they will not talk about.

I wonder if others have encountered this outer limit of Emerging Dialogue. If you have, tell me about it.

Would you care to hazard a guess as to what the subject matter could possibly be to so suddenly send Emerging types into a blatantly silent refusal to acknowledge reality?

God Says Barack Obama Is Qualified

A few days ago I wrote an article/blog in which I wondered what all the fuss was about when it came to Barack Obama supposedly mocking Christians and the Bible.

Now is revealed a lawsuit filed in a United States District Court in Pennsylvania accusing Barack Obama of not meeting the legal qualifications to be President of the United States. If what is stated is true, then his Presidential bid just went up in flames. Buuuut............I think there's something being overlooked in this situation.

First is the condition of the Legal System in this country. Since Barack Obama is a Lawyer, that puts him in the middle of the system. No, let me modify that. Since Obama is a Lawyer, a Senator and a U.S. Presidential Candidate, he is at the top of the system. Why? Because someone higher up wants him there. So a lawsuit can be filed and even become very public, but that doesn't mean that the completely legitimate merits of the case will result in the proper steps being taken by all involved, including but not limited to, Judges. Unless Obama has upset a higher up somewhere, don't expect this case to go anywhere. In fact, the likely impact could very easily create the image of Obama being persecuted by political hit men, all the while being protected by the Legal system.

Second, since Romans 13 reveals that God is the one who ordains men to be in positions of Official power, what if The Almighty wants him to be President? Do you contend that he's not qualified, not fit to be President of the United States? But what if God says he is qualified?

In fact, if those who have jumped on the political case of Barack Obama, especially when it comes to his Mockery of Christians, God and the Bible, would just rely on their own Scripture more often, they would realize that what they are accusing Obama of actually qualifies him for office. You say Huh!!!!???????????

If you will return to the book of Genesis, you will find that Cain was the first Public Official Ordained by God. And what was his one ratifying act of entering public office? He rejected YHWH by sacrificing YHWH's Prophet, his own righteous brother Abel. This rejection was Cain's acceptance of YHWH's offer to rule over evildoers. He then proceeded to build the city of Enoch, which archeology reveals to be the beginning of his extensive personal political kingdom among men.

Do we so soon forget the eight years of the God ordained Clinton administration? I believe religious types had a hard time with that one, too.

The fact is that God will put in office who He knows this country and World needs. All the whining or lawsuits in the World will not change that.

If God's People are going to attempt to speak for God, let it be the right message coupled with the right actions.

And please, don't tell God who he has to ordain.

Politics, Religion & The Culture War

For a number of years, you have heard the phrase, "Culture War" thrown around in the contexts of different conversations about politics and religion. The idea is that we, as Christians, are in a war to win or win back our culture. The further idea is that the American culture is a Christian or Biblical Culture. On that basis are we to proceed to engage the enemy and win back the preeminence of Christian values in American culture.

First of all, any culture for God's People is designed by God Himself, not any man or group of men. That includes the Founding Fathers of the United States, any group of elders, deacons, bishops and yes, even the Pope. And just because a man or group of men refer to themselves as "Christian" does not create that reality nor does it somehow elevate them to a status equal to or above God or His Word.

Second, God's Culture for His People is automatically separate from any other culture in this World. By virtue of Coming to God, we have been called out of every culture of the World into His Culture. And God has no desire to see us return to any other culture of the World.

In fact, we are to propagate the Good News of God's offer of Salvation to those in the World and its attendant cultures so that they, too, can join our Lord and His Culture. And after we come to Him, we begin to adopt the lifestyle that God requires for His People.

Yes, it is different. But nowhere in Scripture can you find the command to inculcate the Culture of Christ into any culture of the World. The two don't mix. In fact, they are diametrically opposed to one another. They cannot mix because their natures are different. Their natures are different because their origins are different. One originates with man. The other originates with God.

However, there will be an epoch in the future where the Culture of Christ will be in force on this earth. His ways and thoughts will be enforced by Him personally within the population of man. Until that time arrives, it's God's People and the World, two entirely different cultures with two entirely opposite missions. That is the real culture war!

Everything is Political

When you see Barack Obama and John McCain waxing eloquent about the minute details of some political issue deemed important during this Presidential campaign, remember this:

In this age of ultra compartmentalization, it's easy to erect barriers and identify the contents of each compartment. This identification tends to differentiate minutely. It is so detailed that the slightest difference creates in our mind a totally separate reality for each thing identified, even when each compartment contains the same type of item.

When it comes to politics, this scenario is again played out. We tend to think of certain things as being within the realm of politics. It is OK in our mind for politicians to address certain issues and problems because that is within their power to do so. Other things are strictly taboo and private. A hands off policy is thought to be only too appropriate for political legislators. After all, certain things are different. They are not political. So, shoo fly shoo!

Regardless of what you think about certain things being political or not, the fact remains that all things are political, whether you think they are or not. Don't believe me? Then take this challenge.

Identify one area of your life that is not addressed by a law or set of laws.

You can't, can you?

Now, identify the ones who make those laws. Aaahhh! That's right! Politicians!!!!!!!

Lest you think that only men are this way, let's take a look at God. Could it be that He operates in the same manner? Never thought about it?

Well, there's a verse that Jesus quoted from the Old Testament that sheds light on our query. This verse says, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." Any knowledgeable Bible student knows that the Creator of the universe possesses every right to determine how his creatures are to conduct themselves while on this earth. And that He does, in every area of life.

In addition, the book of Psalms says that God is our Lawgiver. So, guess what? That makes everything political, since the Eternal Legislator has spoken.

So, the next time someone starts to talk about a particular thing not being political, remember that everything is political.

Christians Mocked??? Are you Shocked?

Among the Political World of Christians, the latest attention grabber to make the rounds is a video clip of Barack Obama mocking and ridiculing Christians. Christians are supposed to be outraged by this and make certain political conclusions and choices as a result.

Pardon me if I sound a bit incredulous. Are we supposed to actually be outraged by this? Does this somehow shock our sensibilities. If so, why? Have we overlooked or forgotten entirely the words of Jesus to His Disciples in the Book of John. Chapter 15, verse 20 finds Jesus saying, "....If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you;" Earlier he stated, "If the world hates you, you know that it hated me before it hated you."

And why does this state of affairs happen. In this context, Jesus also tells us why. He says simply in verse 19, "If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are not of this world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you."

Why does Jesus speak these words to His Disciples. The first verse of Chapter 16 finds him telling why, "These things have I spoken to you that you should not be offended," A few verses late, we find Him continuing, "But these things have I told you that when the time comes, you may remember that I told them to you."

Are you ready for another shock? Most Christians in this country have been under a milder form of mockery and ridicule for generations. In fact, President Bush has informed religious types exactly what they were, nothing more than "Political Capital." Political powers that be have used the political energy of God's People to further their agenda. And what have they received in return? Nothing!! Absolutely Nothing!!!!! Except more promises if they commit themselves and work hard towward another unreachable political goal.That's right! More work for the World's political machine, the same World, Jesus said He called us out of.

But we know better than Christ. After all, as His servants, we obviously know more than He does. And our zealous activity will make everything right. Jesus will see our good intentions to make this World a better place to live in and He will change his mind about the World. That's why he placed us here! These people aren't so bad after all. Jesus just didn't understand them.

So, are you offended by Obama's alleged mockery? Or anyone else's mockery, for that matter??

Welcome to the real World!

Christian Politics: Barak Obama & John McCain Excluded

In Philippians 3:20, the literal translation reads, "Our politics is from heaven:"

If you know anything about Greco-Roman politics, this statement was packed full of information to Believers. First of all, Greek politics was always on the local level, IE the city. That's why cities had walls and military campaigns were usually city against city. It is significant, indeed, when Paul identifies the origin of Politics for the Christian as "heaven." New Jerusalem is the city from whence Christ will return to this Earth to establish his earthly political reign. Until that time, our political policies and instructions while in this World originate from God's throne. After all, He is the Sovereign of the Universe and does reign over the affairs of men, even the political affairs.

But, this does not mean that we as Christians are to join in the political affairs of the World system. No, Paul is very clear that our politics is of a very different nature. In no way, though does this mean that we, as Children of God, are to disengage ourselves from contact with World inhabitants. To the contrary, we are to engage them with the message of Reconciliation to a Holy and Just God, the provision of which has been made through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We are to propagate this political message to World citizens, the same World citizens Christ loved and died for.

So, as you watch Barak Obama and John McCain campaign for the office of President, remember this one fact. They are both on the wrong side. And they both need a new Political Leader to follow.

Trusting God

It seems there are times where you are left with no choice but to trust God.

That may seem like an odd statement, so I'll explain.

It simply means that you know of no means to meet your need. And you feel no need to explain your plight to anyone because those you've considered your friends in the past have separated themselves from you. In other words, they're gone. They consider you to be akin to an enemy. And resources which you have accessed in the past are not available to you, either. They are also gone.

And as far as you know, there's no help available. Yet, the need has not disappeared. In fact, it appears larger than ever.

Thus, the apparent need to simply trust God to supply your need.

In one sense, it greatly simplifies matters. You can't look to another person. You can't draw from your pool of resources. Yet, the God who originally provided these people and their resources has not changed. He has not moved. He has not abandoned anyone. And His resources have not diminished.

So, when continually asking God to meet your needs, even when those needs are rather large, it is sometimes necessary to just settle down and wait on God, especially when you don't even have the means to go searching for the supply of your need. And having been in this position before, I at least have a history with God to fall back on. I've been in this position before. I've watched as God performed as only He can, maybe using people I've never met and may never see again. Others have come to be a regular part of our lives.

Regardless, the need to look to God and no one else remains. And I smile when I contemplate the end result. As surprising as the result may be, I can rest assured that it is exactly what He wanted for me and my family. I'm glad that I am in His hands, a much safer place than my own.

Christians, The World & Rebels

Have you ever been accused of being a rebel? Or a person who just wants to disagree with authority for the sake of disagreeing?

I have. And after awhile, it's not fun. Especially because it not true. I'll explain.

You see, I don't have a problem with legitimate authority. I don't have a problem with submitting to legitimate authority. But I refuse to willingly follow that legitimate authority as they lead me over the side of a cliff. In other words, I refuse to follow leadership when they expect me to engage in activities that I know are detrimental to me and/or my family.

Such is the current state of churches in this country. Most Pastors teach doctrine and engage in policies that are detrimental to the ones listening to and following them. The problem lies in the fact that most have not thought through their position on a variety of issues. They simply parrot what someone else has taught them, especially when it is accompanied by verses of Scripture. They don't truly take the teachings to Scripture for comparison with the totality of Holy Writ.

This doesn't mean that all they teach is wrong. It just means that whatever amount is wrong is vital to living a life as Christ would have us live, not someone else. That someone else is the World.

Most Pastors have unknowingly adopted the World's ways and thoughts concerning vital areas of life. There are various reasons for this, but the fact remains that certain policies have been adopted and implemented simply because of pressure from those who don't know their Bible and what it has to say about these vital areas.

The real problem begins to surface when these policies are not readily accepted by some in the congregation. It's not that the resistance is public in nature. It's just that they refuse to go along for the sake of going along. It matters not that they can even reasonably articulate their opposition from Scripture. Non-conformity is not allowed. Thus begins the process of applying various sorts of pressure upon these resisters to follow the lead of everyone else. It can get rather unpleasant as relationships are strained. Usually, unless conformity is attained, these relationships are severed, all in the name of God. This is sad, but true. I've experienced it myself. It is in no way easy. Nor is it desirable. But the Word of God is the Word of God. If we will one day give account according to this Book, then following it precepts is mandatory.

In the mean time, there are many wounded People of God within local congregations. They remain untreated because no one recognizes what is happening. Many are pushed aside and never accepted again as viable members of the congregation. Most of these leave, never to participate in a vibrant relationship with other Believers. God only knows how many blame God for the manner in which His People conduct themselves.

And in the mean time, there remain a certain number who faithfully follow Christ. They may not receive recognition for their actions, but God has all recorded. And He faithfully backs up His Word as His People trust Him while leading their families. Many of these are considered Rebels.

I might be considered a Rebel. But my study of Scripture hasn't revealed that I am required to follow anyone over the cliff.

Keep Your Oath: It's The Law or When God Laughs

This country is truly in a sad state. I say that because of the state of the Judicial system. You know, the one overseen and administered by those officials called Lawyers. If you think that the Lawyers are kept in check by the Legislative branch, have you taken a look at the legislative rolls? That's right, they're filled with Lawyers! Do you appeal to the Executive Branch? That's right! Same thing! Lawyers, Lawyers, Lawyers!!!!!!

Here's the rub. When a Lawyer, or any other person for that matter, attains a public office, they are required by law to take an oath of office which says that they will faithfully uphold the Constitution and all the laws thereunder. No problem so far. But when they fail to uphold and administer those laws, what happens then? Whose responsibility is it to investigate and prosecute that person? Most likely, it's another lawyer. You mean, one Lawyer is responsible to prosecute another lawyer? That's right. Lawyer versus Lawyer.

But when an outsider comes along and decides to defend himself in a case, that's another matter. It's amazing how united Lawyers suddenly become. It matters not who the defendant is. If that person is conducting his own defense, the Judge, Prosecutor and any other Lawyer whose services are needed form as tightly knit a group as you will ever see. And it matters not if the law is being broken in the course of these united activities. The most important thing is that the person defending himself be made to look as foolish as possible. This person needs to look as if what they really need is the service of a good Lawyer. Upholding the law, regardless of what it actually says, and fulfilling an oath of office take a back seat to protecting the hallowed ground of all Brothers of Law.

It may seem that I'm blaming this state of affairs on Lawyers. To the contrary. I blame it on God's People. That's right! The People who should know and understand Law backwards and forwards are actually woefully ignorant when it comes to what the law actually says and its potential application to them. That's because they are more woefully ignorant of their own legal manual provided to them by their own Heavenly Lawyer, Jesus Christ. The legal reality of Grace is not evident in their lives. In fact, most have accepted a cheap imitation of Grace among themselves which gives them license to conduct their lives in just about any manner they desire. After all, God will forgive them, regardless of what they do. While technically correct, this legal stance before God tends to produce a life of turmoil and destruction, which needs to be continually addressed and allows no time for real living. Most of a person's time is devoted to dealing with the debris created by wrong decisions in life. Wisdom, knowledge and instruction is cast to the wayside as the freedom of grace is indulged in. They fail to understand the actions, or lack thereof, on the part of God to clean up their mess as a result of their indulgence. They fail to realize that He has already spoken about such things in the first chapter of Proverbs. And how does he promise to respond to someone who proceeds while ignoring the wise counsel provided by Him. He says simply in verse 26, "I also will laugh at your calamity." For an eye opener, read the entire passage.

This is where the Lawyers enter the picture. Sin management is the forte of all Attorneys. This includes skirting the spirit and letter of the law where desirable an/or feasible. This comes in handy when dealing with the debris of one's own life. And Christians have this knack for creating more debris than their worldly counterparts. It tends to be more of a mess. After all, they're Christians! They're not supposed to act this way, buuuut, since they have, why not manage it well! Especially when it's Christian against Christian!

Sadly, most Christians don't realize that there are different jurisdictions within Law, depending on your status and standing. They don't realize that when they hire a Lawyer, they put themselves within an unnecessary jurisdiction, unnecessary because they have a jurisdiction available exclusively to them. But, once a Lawyer is hired, that exclusive jurisdiction and its benefits is waived.

Even more sad is the length of time God's People in this country have gone without really being privy to this type of knowledge. We're not talking years or decades. We're talking generations. And in that length of time, not only has the ignorance of God's People increased, so has the boldness of Lawyers. Lawyers today take advantage of this ignorance and treat people as if they are criminals. When this other law, this other jurisdiction is mentioned before them, they laugh and scoff at the person bringing up such nonsense. They attempt to make them look like fools.

I can't help but wonder if that is God laughing through the Lawyers.

The Politics of Provision

As the Presidential race goes into high gear, this is a good time to consider a few things as the candidates give their pitch as to why they're the man most deserving of the position of President of the United States. Regardless of what the particular topic is at any given time, it's important to notice the common factor in most, if not all, of them. It comes down to what the candidate promises to provide or deliver to the electorate. In other words, what can they give to the people? ............Kinda sad ain't it?

Can you believe that people would actually look to a man, all because of what he can offer them? If I didn't know better, I'd think that they were gods! OOooooops!!!!! Did I let that slip!!!????? Such greasy words!

Come to think of it, Jesus said the same thing. I believe he is quoted as quoting from the current Scripture of his day as "ye are gods." In fact, when you take a good look at it, this is exactly what Jesus did in His Ministry, promise provision to all who would look to Him for that provision, regardless of the need. And He did this in stark contrast to the other major deified provider of His day, Rome's Caesar.

Yet, in spite of a new age and vast cultural growth and sophistication, the political climate in this country finds the exact same process occuring. Man continually appealing to the masses for respect and support while the masses urgently look for someone to provide for them. Meanwhile, the Creator of the Universe patiently waits in the wings for all to come to Him for their ultimate need, reconciliation to Him. For He's promised to meet all their needs if they will simply bow their knees to Him and his Provision, Himself.

But Aahhh, that's a tough decision, because it puts one at odds with alot of other people, especially those political types who seem to think they know best who the Provider should be in others lives. Of course, that Provider should be Government and its humbly ordained army of public servants. After all, it's their place to act as Robin Hood and "take from the rich and give to the deserving poor" all because they detect a need which can be met by passing a new set of laws. And who wants to go against the democratic mass whose majority is always right? That tends to put a man is an awkward position.

So who do we trust? A nebulous God whom we can't detect with our senses? Or a flesh and blood man who will stand before us and maybe shake our hand while he promises us the world?

Well, they say a man's track record speaks for itself. So, in that case, I've already joined the greatest political party ever assembled, whose fringe benefits stand unique in this universe. After all, being a joint heir with Christ is as good as it gets since He owns it all.

Compare that with any offer made by any politician that has ever lived. I believe the choice becomes rather simple. Eternally Simple.

A Christian Worldview? Which One?

Within the ranks of Christendom, there has arisen over the last couple of decades, a rising interest and promotion of, what has come to be known as "A Christian Worldview." This pious sounding title supposedly contains the elements of Truth by which all children of God are mandated to live on this earth.

Unfortunately, what has come to be espoused as "A Biblical Worldview" has very little to do with the Bible. While much Scripture is used to construct this supposedly biblical model for life, it focuses mostly on "The World." God is relegated to the role of a lofty afterthought, prominently insignificant.

To further the confusion of such an integral part of the modern Christian life, there seems to be a plethora of biblical worldviews available for the spiritual consumer to choose from. These usually deal with how the Christian can take dominion of, or at least, heavily influence the World system. This group is usually contrasted with just one other radically opposite worldview, the one where Christians are mandated to withdraw from all worldly activity and seclude themselves from the evil influences of the World. This unfriendly bunch is left to deal almost exclusively among themselves for any material goods and/or services.

The sad part of this scenario, however, is that the truly Biblical Worldview is seldom brought into the mix to consider. Significant statements of Jesus Himself, as well as the words of other inspired biblical writers are either not discussed or they are rationalized or explained away as being culturally inexpedient or unattainable. In other words, they are impossible. So, rather than Truth being properly proclaimed and taught, it is left for the spiritual seeker to trust God to fulfil his Word and have the Holy Spirit "lead them into all truth." Such is the climate of the current Biblical Worldview wars as ministries vie for the heartstrings of men, women and young people.

So what is a Truly Biblical Worldview? Let's list five things which the true student of Scripture cannot afford to overlook or misinterpret when attempting to determine such important doctrine;

1. The Pleading of Jesus to Pilate.

• My Kingdom is not of this World
• If it were, then would my servants fight to not have me delivered to the Jews.

2. The Polemic of Satan to Jesus

• The Offer of Satan to Jesus.
• The Response of Jesus to Satan's Offer

3. The Position of the World to Christ

• The World is lost and in need of A Savior
• The World is the Enemy of Christ

4. The Position of the World to God's People

5. The Politics of God's People

These points are not exhaustive by any means, but are significant enough to merit the application of strict hermeneutics by the serious student of Scripture. They are not to be so lightly thought of that they are easily replaced by any cultural or philosophical mandate of man.

After all, the five points are alliterated. That alone merits serious consideration for infallibility!

More to come................